. I have of course written on both issues before. But R. Kent Hughes is quite correct to say that this is “one of the most difficult texts in the New Testament. Needless to say, not everything found in the comments posted here are points of view I approve of or agree with. Annihilationism is the belief that the final fate of those who are not saved is literal and final death and destruction. Annihilationism, Universalism and the Angelic Problem. . Annihilationism & Universalism So we were recently learning in College about these two beliefs that exist within the Christian church, and they've been going back and forth in my head. Having assessed annihilationism in the past, my summary would be that it is linguistically incompetent. Tags: These two isms are heresies which orthodox Christianity has always rejected and treated as clear departures from biblical teaching. Both do not like the idea that an all loving and all merciful God would punish a human being in Hell for all of eternity. A genuine grasp of this prophetic Scripture will not lead to date setting but to alertness, faithfulness, fruitfulness, and service to Jesus’s most needy disciples.”. Annihilationism vs Traditionalism glossary that shows the differences between how Traditionalists and Annihilationists define the same words. All up, the passages presented here seem to give a pretty clear message: there are two sorts of people and two eternal destinies. We live in an age where we see evidence of cultural decline, the erosion of values, the decline of civility, the denial of truth and the elevation of unreason. Sure, plenty of people – including plenty of Christians – no longer like the idea of hell and choose not to believe in it, but it is clear that Jesus did wholeheartedly adhere to it. According to Traditionalists, the Bible doesn't actually mean what it says. You must state your full name to have your comments posted. Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window), Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pocket (Opens in new window). google_ad_slot = "5932219409"; It is hard to square the notion of all being saved with this idea of many being deceived. Annihilationism vs. Universalism at They shall be abhorrence to all flesh. Derek Ouellette — April 17, 2011. The best that I can tell, Annihilationist’ and Universalists have very similar concerns. Purchase from Bill Muehlenberg Purchase at Amazon.comPurchase at Koorong.com, Purchase from Bill Muehlenberg Purchase at Amazon.com Purchase at Koorong.com, Purchase from Bill Muehlenberg Purchase at Amazon.com Purchase at Koorong.com. Matthew 10.28 — Why Annihilationism is not Universalism March 18, 2011 Guest Contributor Patheos Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! google_ad_height = 250; Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. He wrote a book around 400 pages teaching this. etc. It is a logical difficulty to assert that the person who completely ceases to exist is actually the same person who is re-created. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’ But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you’.” It is hard to be one of His if you are not known by Him. This chapter ends with the story of the wise and unwise stewards. I was listening to the book of Isaiah this morning on CD and when I came to the last chapter it spoke to me about the very similar article that you just wrote about, “Universalism and Annihilationism “. So Choose Life, Choose Jesus and His atoning sacrifice for your sins and mine. 782 Words 3 Pages. Featured The Universalist Story is Not a Realistic Story (Annihilationism vs. Universalism) Discussion in ' Controversial Christian Theology ' started by Mark Corbett , Jul 31, 2017 . We begin with conditionalism, which is sometimes referred to as annihilationism. The whole "What happens to us after we die" question has never really kept me up at night, I'm a Christian mostly because I just want to follow Christ. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! At first blush it seems plausible; but the deeper you dig the more you notice how it fumbles the use of language. Anyone who is aware of how the annihilationists argue will note that they try to claim that some of the Greek words employed in this regard do not actually mean eternal (see my article above for more on this). Upon the Day of Judgment, he is \"re-created\" to be judged and then he is immediately annihilated. Annihilationism and Universalism are agreed that one day there will be no evil. As to the former, see here: billmuehlenberg.com/2011/03/12/against-universalism/, As to the latter, see here: billmuehlenberg.com/2014/12/04/against-annihilationism-part-one/, And here: billmuehlenberg.com/2014/12/04/against-annihilationism-part-two/. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Even if figurative language is being used here, it is hard to square such suffering with annihilation. Annihilationism, Universalism, Hell and Judgment II . In Christian theology, universal reconciliation (also called universal salvation, Christian universalism, or in context simply universalism) is the doctrine that all sinful and alienated human souls—because of divine love and mercy—will ultimately be reconciled to God. There is no idea of only one humanity. For many will come in my name, claiming, “I am the Messiah,” and will deceive many’.”. I … Universalism, annihilationism, and inclusivism all speak to different questions. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. I regard these arguments for annihilationism and universalism—from emotion and from God’s victory—as rewriting the biblical story, something we have no right to do. Those who are none of his are described in verses 29-30: “For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Having just reread those two chapters, I was again struck as to how often these two truths about salvation and punishment are emphasised. Mark 9.43. Yet, universalists could hold that God will utterly destroy, in body and soul, those who are not saved, because they believe everyone will be saved! Annihilationism, Universalism and the Angelic Problem. Purpose. I was thinking the other day that Annihilationism is quite in keeping with the idea of God wiping out the entire population in a flood. And in verses 12-13 we read: “Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.” Without getting into the fine detail of what ‘standing firm’ entails exactly, it is clear that not all will be saved. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.” Again, details can be debated: some say it refers to the rapture – others disagree. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. There are only two places after death, Heaven and Hell. I'm trying to figure out which is closer to the message Christ gave. What they fail to see is that this verse also refutes eternal conscious torment. . Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. Some instead will grow cold. If you are looking for a soapbox to promote your own views, create your own website or blog site. If you want to contribute financially, here are two methods: For those wishing to contribute to this ministry by direct debit, here are our banking details: Westpac Banking Corporation Ringwood Central, Vic. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. All Biblical evidence can fit annihilationism. /* ucadsmallsq */ Later the others also came. Eternal Punishment v Universalism and Annihilationism. In these two chapters Jesus is repeatedly speaking about two basic groups of people: those who are really his, and those who are not. See more on this here: billmuehlenberg.com/2011/03/11/on-hell/. This is a major set of teachings which Jesus gave on the Mount of Olives. Our spirit can never die, they are Eternal, just Like God is Eternal. Just a thought. 24:3). google_ad_client = "ca-pub-8064619561175324"; Verses 50-51 say: “The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. And indeed, many Christians have experience this love and mercy first-hand throughout their lives. However, we still can glean some theological certainty here, especially on the two issues set before us. both are eternal, as our spirit’s are eternal. Isaiah 66.24 (says) And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against Me; (against God) the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be … It is not my intention to enter into all the complexities of biblical eschatology and apocalyptic literature here. As Robert Mounce puts it, “The essential problem is that Matthew seems to move back and forth between an impending crisis (the fall of Jerusalem), and the end of the age when Jesus would return in judgment.”. Verses 10-12 certainly make this clear: “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. But I must acknowledge that this discourse can be quite difficult to interpret at times, due in part to all the rich prophetic language employed. The view which best fits Matthew 25:46 is annihilationism! Cherem was the command in various books of the OT for the Israelites to kill all living things within a conquered city, all men, women, children and livestock. Comments which are simply attacks on myself, or are done in bad taste, or use rude language, or are possibly defamatory will not be posted. Matthew 25 begins with the parable of the ten virgins. This website uses cookies to improve your experience. Where the worms that eat them do not die and the fire is not quenched. Off course, as you write above, that there are many many verses that speak about hell fire and the lake of fire spoken of in the book of Revelation. google_ad_slot = "5799117801"; Preaching universalism in an evangelical church can not pay the bills, for any pastor. Author Topic: Annihilationism vs Universalism (Read 6240 times) 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Question #1: Hello again, Dr. Luginbill, I was doing some study on the internet when I came across a bible teacher who believes and teaches the doctrine of Annihilationism. Africa (36) Apologetics (762) Theodicy (80) Article Reviews (1,397) Asia (50) Book Reviews (560) Christianity (3,277) Notable Christians (103) Annihilationism stands in contrast to both belief in eternal torture and suffering in the lake of fire and the belief that everyone will be saved (universal reconciliation or simply "universalism"). Problem is – as the annihilationists know 😉 , one of those beliefs is false, namely the one on which eternal torment and universalism agree. For many, annihilationism is an attractive belief because of the awfulness of the idea of people spending eternity in hell. It offers reflection and commentary drawing upon the wealth of wisdom found in the Judeo-Christian tradition. google_ad_width = 200; ***** Their End is Destruction (four words that support annihilationism) In Philippians 3:19, Paul gives support for annihilationism. Annihilationism vs Traditionalism TRADITIONALISM ANNIHILATIONISM Perish: Eternally tortured in hell Perish: To . Many thanks for helping to make this ministry possible and helping it to continue. Comments should be brief (preferably under 100 words), polite, constructive and informed. Isaiah 66.24 (says) And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against Me; (against God) the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched. But, read his post and see you agree with him, although he ignores hyperbolic speech, the back of the book, and the what not…. google_ad_height = 200; Houseologie – A Study of House of and Home. Those three pieces offer plenty of scriptural support for the twin truths that not all mankind will be saved, and that hell is real and a place of eternal torment. For most verses, they have little explanatory power. It is found in Matthew 24-25, Mark 13, and Luke 21. The final parable, that of the sheep and the goats, offers the same sober warning and the same theological reality. Eternal Punishment vs. Universalism and Annihilationism. But, this is problematic because there is no continuity between the person who first was created and then was re-created. A main issue is how to understand when these things are to take place. But if we find this much clear evidence of these truths in just the Olivet Discourse, how much more so in all of the Bible? On Hell and Holocausts: Comparing Annihilationism and Universalism Posted on 5.02.2013. I’m not so sure, actually, that that is what really motivates everyone in the camps. ECT and Universalism fit a few of the verses well about death/afterlife. This also clearly refers to two humanities, to two types of people, and to two destinies. Here I will just deal with the version found in Matthew’s Gospel. Mark 9; 48 NIV. And these two themes certainly go together. Your email address will not be published. This site is meant to express my point of view. The first one claims that everyone will be saved while the second one claims that the lost will simply be annihilated, and not suffer endless punishment. ... (as universalism has it) after entering hell itself. Each of the three views: Annihilationism, Eternal Torment, and Universalism, can be thought of as one side of a triangle, each having one thing in common with one of the other views. Annihilationism. I’m surprised to hear that some “Christians” believe in universalism and annihilationism when scripture says otherwise. A reflection on Rob Bell’s latest book, by CT managing editor Mark Galli, The Godhead: Dyohypostatic Theology vs. Miahypostatic Theology. BSB #: 733349 Account #: 613094 In the first post, I showed that the Universalist story goes wrong because it has the wrong ultimate goal. He wiped them out rather than tormenting them for eternity. "Though there be no fears of annihilation in heaven, yet there be many wishes for it in hell, but to no purpose; there never will be an end put, either to their being, or their torments." It offers reflective and incisive commentary on a wide range of issues, helping to sort through the maze of competing opinions, worldviews, ideologies and value systems. CultureWatch is a faith ministry and I get no salary. Both do not like the idea that an all loving and all merciful God would punish a human being in Hell for all of eternity. As Craig Blomberg puts it, “The physical judgment of unrepentant Israel is epitomized by the destruction of the temple (24:15-20), but there is a coming judgment of all nations or peoples for which every human must prepare (25:31-46).”, David Turner offers a helpful approach to this section of scripture: “The Olivet Discourse makes it clear that biblical prophecy is more than mere prediction. Posted in: FAQs Tagged: annihilationism, conditional immortality, death and hell, eternal torment, immortality, universalism. The Olivet Discourse vs Universalism and Annihilationism Coming Home: My Testimony, Part 1 Love Is Not the Same as Acceptance Categories. As Leon Morris comments, “The last of Jesus’ major discourses in this Gospel is largely concerned with judgment and the conduct expected of the follower of Jesus in view of the coming judgment.”, The judgment spoken of is two-fold. Study of it requires a proper humility and a willingness to admit that we do not know everything.” Quite right. So let me briefly mention each one of the relevant passages as we find them here. Second, there is the view of Annihilationism which is sometimes referred to as “Conditional Immortality.” Proponents of this view believe that all those who do not put their trust in Christ in this life will meet a total destruction resulting in complete extinction of body, soul and spirit. Annihilationism, Universalism and the Angelic Problem, Universalism? google_ad_width = 250; And those who have so rejected the image of God which Christ renewed. If it does not mean eternal punishment, then it also means there is no eternal life. I have been thinking a good deal of late, on the last verse of the third chapter of John. It runs counter to the mainstream traditional Christian understanding of hell as eternal suffering and separation from God.. Many people are asking, “Where is our culture heading?” This website is devoted to exploring the major cultural, social and political issues of the day. The belief in Annihilationism has appeared throughout Christian history and was defended by several church fathers, but it has often been in the minority. Please have a read of those for much more detail on these matters. I may reply to some of your comments but will not be able to respond to all. Instead we read that it is appointed for us to die and face judgment, and that today is the day of salvation. For the most part, the texts fit very well. Happy writing! google_ad_client = "ca-pub-8064619561175324"; I once again just finished reading the Olivet Discourse. I say this because the Bible’s final three chapters present the eternal state of affairs. But this seems to be another clear indication of two humanities, and not just one. Saturday, June 13, 2020. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. But if we bought their argument, then we certainly would have a problem here, for the very same Greek word is twice used here for ‘eternal’ in verse 46. It will discuss critically and soberly where our culture is heading. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! In the case of annihilationism, the concept is, ”Well, if I sin too much, and I don’t accept Jesus before I die, then I’ll just take a forever dirt nap.” For universalism, the argument is, “If I sin too much, and I don’t accept Jesus before I die, the Big Guy will give me another chance. Eternal Punishment vs. Universalism And Annihilationism John 3: 36 Charles Henry Mackintosh. Learn how your comment data is processed. . The reason for conflation may be because they are somewhat related. John 3:36. Annihilationism? Jesus, when He spoke in the Gospels, He used the words from Isaiah. Instead, we have two clearly differing humanities. For example, Hodge says, "….If Christ and his Apostles did not teach that all men are to be saved [universalism], neither did … Evangelical pastors who flirt too much with universalism should consider a new career. (being tormented day and night for ever and ever.) There is no universalism being taught here. Hell, Hades, and the Afterlife ... Posted in: FAQs Tagged: annihilationism, conditional immortality, death and hell, eternal torment, immortality, universalism The knowledge of what God will do in the future (24:1–35) must have a profound effect upon God’s people in the present (24:36–25:46). . And the door was shut. The main reason I believe in annihilationism and not universalism is the simple fact that the Bible says the unrighteous will perish , be destroyed in body and soul (Matthew 10:28), die (Romans 6:23), and be burned to ashes (2 Peter 2:6). C. H. Mackintosh. The case for two humanities and the reality of hell is obviously found throughout Scripture, not just in two chapters in Matthew. Next we have the parable of the bags of gold, and again we have the two classes of people. It closes in verses 44-46 with these words: “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”. Some annihilationists believe that once a person dies, his soul instantly ceases to exist. The major themes found here are that of judgment, and the need to always be alert. Even though he doesn’t come out nearly as strong in favor of Universalism (or Ultimate Reconciliation) as Pinnock does for Annihilationism, Bell could have still expressed the same concerns as Pinnock about the consequences of challenging the traditional view. In yesterday's post I talked about cherem in the Old Testament. And if thy hand offend thee cut it off; it better for thee to enter into Life (eternal life) maimed, than having two hands to go to hell, into the fire that shall NEVER BE QUENCHED. In many standard theologies, universalism and annihilationism are treated as very close positions--theological "first cousins"--so to speak. “Annihilationism” would, technically speaking, be that doctrine which holds that God will utterly destroy, in body and soul, those who are not saved. Or the fact that the eternal fire is prepared for the devil and his angels, and that seems to be only ones there in the back of the book. The Bible does n't actually mean what it says to promote your own views, create your website! Of all being saved with this, but you can ’ t have without. Throughout scripture, not extinguished, wont be put out, eternal fire with conditionalism, is... Eternal life unrighteous are repeated in other verses be taken from them intention to enter all. 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